We were eating lunch together. An atheist and a christian. Respectful friends.
She once identified as a christian and she was telling me about her disdain for what her christian friends believe. “When I ask them why they believe that stuff,” she said, “they can’t tell me. If I ask them questions, they say they haven’t thought about that.”
“There’s so much shit happening,” she said, outlining a few events in people’s lives that she knows about. Sickness, accident, mental illness. “So why doesn’t God stop it? He’s supposed to be sovereign so that means he’s causing it all!”
“What do you think? How do you explain all that?” she asked.
I thought about it for a moment. “I don’t think God’s responsible for all that,” I said. “I think God gave us the world, and evolution and genetics and the human race are mostly responsible for what happens.”
“You’re saying we have free choice?”
“Yes,” I replied, “that’s God’s great gift to us, to give us the dignity and responsibility of being able to act independently of him.”
“Well,” she said, “that’s a better answer than I’ve heard before. I’m glad you believe in evolution – you think really differently to them.”
“I don’t mean to be disrespectful, but I still can’t accept all that other silly stuff, like talking donkeys and a virgin having a baby. How could anyone believe that?”
“I don’t think donkeys can talk,” I replied, “but I do believe in the virgin birth.”
She looked at me with surprise. “Do you? How is it possible? Did God just plant a little fertilised egg in there? Was Jesus really related to Joseph and Mary, or was all his DNA from God?”
“I know you don’t believe in God,” I said, “but let’s treat it as a hypothetical. If God could reach out his finger and say ‘Let there be light’ and the big bang began, then he could equally reach out and fertilise a seed in Mary.”
“Sort of like divine IVF?” she said.
“That’s not a bad way to put it.” I replied.
“Well,” she said, “I don’t believe all that nonsense, but you’ve given me something to think about. I’ll take all that away and ponder it.”
There was a short pause. Then she said: “I hope you don’t think I’ve been disrespectful to you?”
“No,” I said, “I don’t think you could say anything that would offend me. Please feel free to ask and say whatever you like. I’m always happy to have discussions like this.”
The conversation was interrupted round about then. But I suspect when we next meet, she’ll have thought about it, and will challenge me some more.
But I was left wondering.
Do most christians not think about things? Like, if there’s a good God, why is there so much pain and suffering? And can we really believe in miracles, in Jesus’ day or now?
Can most christians answer these sorts of questions? What do they tell their children if they ask questions like this?
This blog is a result of me trying to answer my own questions and those others ask.
Photo: Cottonbro Studio.
Hello, Eric.
I personally think it’s a question of personality types. I’ve had similar conversations, although usually about different subjects, that went along similar lines.
I think you have three, very, very loose personality types when it comes to the things we do and don’t believe, and what we feel we know and don’t know.
1). There are the types that question and analyse things, and spend a lot of time thinking (sometimes overthinking) about any given topic that matters to us or interests us (I would put myself in this category, and from what I’ve seen and read of you, yourself too). This category isn’t automatically more intelligent or anything like that, but simply feel the general need for detailed, refined answers or arguments.
2). People who prefer to find someone who provides a framework or answers for them, they remain within that structure of thinking. These types of people aren’t stupid or ignorant, but I think they are better understood as being described as more naturally dogmatic or prefer to keep the ‘party line’ so to speak.
3). People who don’t think to heavily on a subject and don’t feel particularly strongly if they are right or wrong. Its not apathy, but rather a general attitude of “I don’t know” or “what can I do about it?”. I think this is actually more of a minority then people would think.
The thing is, I know many people who identify as religious or atheist who I would put in all categories. In my personal experience, I’ve never seen a real disproportionate representation of religious or atheistic people in any one category.
You can get theists and atheists in category 1 who, in my opinion, are equally philosophical in their approach, and the you get the people who are in category 2 who just dismiss the view that isn’t theirs simply because its their intuition that their view is the obvious ‘truth’ of the matter, summed up with the statement “I just don’t understand how anyone could think that” (a phrase that fits both the acceptance or denial of the God).
I think it’s very important to note though, that many people probably gradually drift from one category to another throughout life, and that which category they are in depends heavily on the subject and the cultural trend of the day.
I think it’s important to remember these things when we ask ourselves “Do other people in the group I identify with just accept the party line or have they thought about this as hard as I have?”. I’ve found it’s been useful for myself when I ask myself the same questions about my philosophical and political beliefs.
Just my thoughts.
Aaron.
Hi Aaron, interesting thoughts. I’ve pondered some of the same things.
I think #2 includes people who live in, and maybe grew up in, a particular culture which they accept almost without questioning. I think most religions, ethical systems and political philosophies have many adherents in this category.
I think our views are often highly influenced by who we choose to read or listen to. So people do sometimes drift from one viewpoint to another, but often I think that is due to choosing to read a certain viewpoint, or having the internet’s algorithms giving them mostly one side, or by moving from one cultural group to another.
So I agree with your final paragraph – we can use these thoughts to test ourselves, but also to better understand others.